Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Wait... no procedural planets?!?!

Discussion in 'General' started by Lrj52, Oct 23, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,979
    Oh, i'll be happy if they indeed are 120km - that's "huge" to me. Thing is - when comparing what we saw in the stream with what we've seen from Source Code diggers the Mars-one in particular looks way, WAY smaller. Positively tiny. (That mountain didn't help...)
     
  2. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    We'll have to wait and see. I feel confident. I mean, thinking logically, those planets were probably spawned in specifically for the stream. Who knows if they were spawned at their "normal" size? I mean, what if size still affects performance? They're still working on them. Wouldn't it be natural if they spawned them in smaller to have the best possible performance for the sake of the stream?

    People have to stop grabbing onto every single negative probability out there and learn to think positively :D


    And also, I am so impressed with what they've achieved otherwise that I couldn't care less about the size, honestly. That's a small thing compared to what they've been able to do.

    Also... this thing really is monstrous... Still has to go, I agree about that - it's too close to our own Mars.
    http://www.space.com/20133-olympus-mons-giant-mountain-of-mars.html

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  3. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,979
    Yeeeah i've got an entire thread full of "not with SE...".
     
  4. Hiramas Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    121
    If you haven't seen this yet, W4sted Space has uploaded a Video summarising everything that was said in the stream.


    He says it again: Planets are Hand created by means of hightmaps. We were shown only a few versions, but there might be more.
    Also, they WILL be moddable.
     
  5. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,979
    Senator Amidala is a very sad woman these days...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    <grumpy-old-man-mode>Grmbl ungrateful whippersnappers these days...</grumpy-old-man-mode>

    (speaks to self: Please let them take this in its intended spirit... :p)
     
  7. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    Heightmap generation is great for modding. Plenty of stuff out there already to make them from that way...plus the possibility to use greyscale heightmaps to design your own planets.

    I'm off to Magrathea to see if Slartibartfast will knock me up some fjiords for a custom built world :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    Magrathea! (and coming from a Norwegian: That's fjord, not fjiord :p)
     
  9. Krypt Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    584
    So... Why Keen just not using existing solutions to generate height maps? If it is only one problem, they can just reimplement algorithm from Space Engine:

    There is article about it:
    http://habrahabr.ru/post/150541/
    Unfortunatly it only in Russian, but pictures is where. :)
    Main thing about Space Engine: it always work in real time without pregenerating.

    One of most impressive screenshots that I was able to find:

    Or Keen can try to hire developer of Space Engine. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  10. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    396
    So I'm unsure if I have a complete grasp of this concept. The height maps are hand made by any individual. I'm assuming height maps are parameters of where and how high/low the terrain goes. The rest is procedurally generated? Or is it the other way around where height maps are procedurally generated and the rest is touched by a graphics designer?
     
  11. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    I'm pretty sure it's the former. Or at least, for now.
     
  12. Knsgf Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    538
    Contents of PlanetGeneratorDefinitions.sbc suggest that the game takes a hand-made heightmap and adds procedurally generated details on top of it. Then it assigns appropriate terrain textures, based on biome, height and slope of the resulting terrain.
     
  13. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    396
    That sounds reasonable, but I'm assuming this means the terrain of multiple planets can look exactly alike just because of the height map?
     
  14. Knsgf Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    538
    Terrain on different planets of the same type will be somewhat similar but not exactly the same, because of changes added by procedural algorithm.
     
  15. Krypt Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    584
    That still sucks :(
     
  16. Devon_v Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,602
    My take from the video was that the heightmaps were hand crafted to give the surface an aesthetically pleasing form. It's also worth noting that if they are regular, greyscale heightmaps, then the texture representing them can actually store four times its size in data. A 4096x4096 texture can describe an 8192x8192 heightmap by utilizing all four channels. Fine details are likely generated procedurally.

    And yes, it's very important to note they said they are moddable.

    I also noticed that they said the early 30km planets were too small and they kept working at it to make them feel big enough.

    They also responded to a question from the chat about the speed limit and mentioned that its not just a physics issue, but also a LoD issue which is currently really visible with planets. In particular the planets glitched out quite a lot when they used spectator mode to zoom around tens of thousands of kilometers at a time.

    Personally, I think they could probably improve the appearance of planets by applying some fake perspective. Make it so that the heightmaps "fade" as you climb, making it appear that mountains and craters are shorter as you get higher so that the planet takes on a smooth, round shape from orbit. That way you could have Olympus Mons without it so obviously sticking out of the sphere of the planet from orbit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  17. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    550
    I love what they have done so far, but I was expecting more exploration involved. With entirely hand-crafted planets, you'll eventually see everything there is to be seen, and you can't just charge up your jump drive and venture out to find a completely new one.
     
  18. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    They're not entirely hand-crafted, though. 50/50, remember?

    Besides, they'll probably continue adding new templates and heightmaps (this is just the first implementation, remember), or you could download modded ones the community has crafted.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. cedi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    307
    Are there even games that have entirely procedural generated terrain on such a scale? The only one I could come up with would be minecraft, which is as procedural as the asteroids.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    550
    No Man's Sky? :D
     
  21. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Not sure it counts. Are its planets voxel-based?
     
  22. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    Not to mention that's it not really out yet, so we have very little proof that what they are saying is true.
     
  23. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,110
    If I understood correctly from the interviews I've seen, they used a an algorithm to generate all the planets BUT it's not an ingame real-time generator, but a tool the designers used to implement individual unique planets. So, the planets stay the same, the universe is the same for everyone, only it's such a big environment and there's so many planets, that it's difficult that everyone sees the same stuff.
     
  24. Krypt Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    584
     
  25. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Is that voxels, though, or just static heightmaps and teextures?
     
  26. Krypt Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    584
    It is procedurally generated heightmaps and textures. Exactly same part is lost by Keen...

    P.S.: I really, really want Space Engineers in Space Engine's environment
    P.P.S.: http://en.spaceengine.org/
     
  27. aaagamer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    56
    One of the things I was looking forward to most about planets is the exploration factor. I was hoping that planets would be generated in such a way that players (and presumably their friends) could look forward to new and unexpected experiences with every new world. I want to see different colored atmospheres (other than just blue and red), different gravity, different unique land forms, etc.

    But the stream served to shrink a lot of my hopes. So many questions also went unanswered, for instance, how will planets spawn? I assumed they would spawn continuously like asteroids but that does not seem to be the case.
     
  28. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,551
    If space engineers could do planets like this it would be so cool.



     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Why? Because the devs had some all placed nice and close together to test and show things off?
     
  30. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,110
    They were showcasing planets, not exploration. They used Shift+F10 to spawn a planet and then saved the different worlds.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.