Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

What will happen to us DirectX 9 players?

Discussion in 'General' started by WierdKid, Mar 11, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,721
    I sometimes wonder if Xbox 360 owners complain they cannot play Xbox One video games.... hmmmm..

    *stares off into the distance*
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,110
    Considering how those games are usually at the +60€ mark (or at least that's what I hear from people more up to date on console trends than myself), it wouldn't surprise me. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    Your analogy doesn't match the situation in SE...

    The right analogy would be... "If you bought a game for XBox 360, played it for more than a year, but you still love it, then the developer states that to keep playing the game you need to buy an XBox One".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    That number Marek provided is from statistics only KSH have access, DX9 only players are like 9-10% of Steam playerbase if memory serves, could be less, but it certainly is a higher value than what Marek used. But then again, I don't disagree with their decision, but I also understand the frustration of those who can't afford the price, why? Because I've been there.

    I asked because 99% of the people I see with statements like yours are more on the elitist side than reasonable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Potter Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    496
    That's not the same, either. Not even a little bit.

    Games for the 360 and Xbone (actually all consoles for that matter) are released in a finished state. No where do they say that everything is subject to change.

    Yeah, they made a jump to newer (barely) hardware and that absolutely sucks for people who can't upgrade. After reading @Vladimir's thread I have a newfound sympathy for those who can't upgrade. But your analogy isn't even remotely accurate. The XBone is like a $300 upgrade if I'm not mistaken. But a DX11 capable card is far, far less. And the game is still playable either way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. WierdKid Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    Thanks, at least now I know I can keep playing the game.

    @EE: I just want to set the record straight on a couple things:
    1) I'm not trying to get a refund. I'm just trying to keep an older, DX9 friendly version of the game.
    2) My current video card supports DX10.
    You may continue your debate.
     
  7. Potter Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    496
    Is there any chance of you upgrading your hardware? We can help with picking parts and such if you're not technically savvy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,721
    With you being in the US you can get an ok DX11 video card from Amazon from $100 to $150

    Look on Amazon, or NewEgg.
     
  9. rexxar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,532
    You need to spend money on any hobby.

    Asking Keen to continue supporting DX9 is literally asking them to screw over everyone to support a very small segment of the playerbase. Maintaining DX9 and 32 bit support takes a significant amount of time and resources that should be spent on actually improving the game. Every hour they spend fucking around with DX9 is just that much more time taken away from netcode, or rotors, or anything useful.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  10. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    I'm not sure that anybody has actually been asking Keen to continue supporting DX9/32bit builds. Mostly I've just seen people go "Well, that kind of sucks, getting new hardware to keep playing isn't an option for me easily".
     
  11. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,911
    Basically, we're stopping the bus and letting off the handful of DX9 and 32 bit players. But don't worry, they've created a shorter bus just for you and your friends. You can play the 32 bit, DX9 version all day.

    If going from 32 bit to 64 and DX9 to DX11 is a bank breaker in 2016, I suggest that playing early release computer games is too expensive of a hobby for you to consider. In their terms, Keen states something to the order that they can make any changes to the game at anytime. This includes requirements... what version of Windows as well as how clean or dirty they are.

    It's early release.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
  12. g0vernor Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    141
    My friend, I was just about to write the same thing.

    How can PC's from XP era even have the word to protest that today's games should support dx9? We'd have NO progress in game industry whatsoever if devs would have to cater for dx9, today. I mean, is it THAT hard to save for a month or two and get a r9 or a gtx? I think it's not about money, it's about the protest and ignorance. Sorry, but If we would have had to cater for dx7 when SE launched, we'd have NO PLANETS. It just pisses me off how selfish some can be. Save up or gtfo, life is not going to kiss your ass, you better pull yourself together, save a few dollars, buy a new GPU and keep up.

    It's like in old times, people protested that "machines will take our jobs and world will end, boo boo". What happened? industrial revolution.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    Maybe not even a month, depending on spare money. You can pickup an R7 250 1GB or equivalent for less than £65 ($92). It can handle Planetside 2 on high settings (which is quite heavy on the GPU-side) at ~30 fps.
    If all you want is DX11, without planets (it might even handle planets to some extent), an R7 kind of card is plenty.

    It also has the bonus of DX12 and Vulkan support, so you have some partial future-proofing for such a cheap upgrade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. g0vernor Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    141
    Agreed, for so little you really get so much these days. Dx12 (and Vulcan aswell) is not even broadly supported yet, so buying a dx12 compactible gpu is a good investment atm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    There really isn't anything future proof these days, but you can sometimes lessen the blow by buying something that maybe not fully supported. Who knows in 5 years we might be saying the same thing about DX10 and 11 being outdated and unsupported.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. g0vernor Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    141
    Oh definetly. It's just that Vulcan and dx12 are so new and still at the start of their lifespan.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. DuneD Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    948
    I'm so pissed at keen that I cant play SE on my Amiga 500 anylonger, I DEMAND A REFUND!
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,110
    I wonder if Keen released a tape version of SE for the Spectrum... so many tapes it'd require though... :D
     
  19. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    416
    While its true that upgrading a video card on a PC is unbeliavbly easy, when I see threads on preformance problems 90% of them always turn out to be people on laptops. Alot of the people sticking with DX9 is while their laptop can technicly do the DX11 bits, they do them so badly they jist go bad to DX9.
    To tell them to buy a graphics card is telling them to buy a new 1200-2000 laptop or building a desktop from scrach.
    Im not supporting people playing the game on toasterovens, just everyone has unique issues and shouting get a better card will only make people reading these fourms think less of us and solve nothing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    Can you imagine :woot: and over here is my Space Engineers cupboard... :stare:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  21. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    You know... you could have saved the time of posting that if you just read my latest post replying to @PhoenixTheSage .

    I asked because I wasn't sure of his meaning, most of the times people saying something like that are being snobs instead of reasonable.
     
  22. Aurex Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    I have a directx11 card, and still... I sympathize with those who have been left behind with their directx9 hardware. Yes, I get it... directx11 cards are cheap nowadays, yet cheap is a very, very subjective term. I had to work double shifts for three months to afford a gtx980 that died a month after its warranty had expired, and when I bought a lesser expensive replacement, I kept thinking... "what if this one pulls the same trick on me?". In that case I would have to go back to directx9 and to my old pc for at least an year, because there are more important things than having a gaming computer... like paying the bills, or feeding the family. Not everyone lives in a wealthy country with equal opportunities. But I think everyone has a right to do what he/she loves doing from time to time... and if this thing happens to be pc gaming? Should one just skip entirely something that he/she finds pleasurable because it's just too expensive? Yes, everyone should upgrade their gaming rigs as soon as they can, but you can't just act like they're being unreasonable by telling others they're upset about it. They have all the rights to speak out their minds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  23. Lothos Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    314
    First off, nobody is saying people in "poorer" countries can't enjoy pc gaming. Should Americans be upset that Germany has an autobahn and we do not? You guys continue to complain that we are being snobs about SE and its drop of DX9 like we're all saying you can't pc game anymore unless you have a DX11.

    Second, those of us insisting you DON'T have the "right" to speak your mind about the drop of support aren't being snobs. We're being honest and you guys continue to argue like its the end of your pc gaming life. It's one thing to voice concern and that's that, but beating a dead horse for over 2 weeks now is ridiculous. You knew it was coming soon after planets came out anyway. It's not like it was going to be any big surprise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  24. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    When I bought Everquest Trilogy in 2001 I had a Pentium 3 800MHz and an ATI 128bit GPU. I was running with 256MB of RAM and Windows 98 with Directx 7. Harddrive was 12GB

    You want to know what the minimum specs are now?

    So.. what makes SE players so special? Why do we need so many threads about this? There is quite a few games I bought years ago that I cannot run on machines I originally purchased them for. And I never really saw people make issues out of minimum requirements. I'm just trying to understand why SE players do.
     
  25. Lt_Duckweed Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    417
    1200? lol dude you can get a dell with a quad core i5 and a GTX 960m 2gb GDDR5 for 800 bucks. A 960m stays above 30-40 fps on med-high in most new AAA games.
     
  26. Einharjar Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    529
    I remember the days of just upgrading a system. I since gave up on it. Sometimes money gets super tight and you just can't do it and we have all have those, but the reality sets in that all you're doing is just proving how much of a money pit your system is. Cars are money pits too but at least when I get done 'rodding out my Buick with slightly over 1,000 BHP, that number is still appreciable no matter who's on the street.
    When it comes to PC Gaming? Nothing close to that. With cars, we're pretty close to maxing out typical combustion engine designs as we usually see them, push rod motors can only go so far. With electronics though, we're still developing new materials to make electronics out've.
    So, you're faced with this dilemma of "well, I could spend a quick 200 bucks and get a new GPU that will literally be 5 to 10X faster than what I have, but now my CPU is the bottleneck".
    And slowly but surely, you're faced with the very real reality that you're better off just saving up and building a brand new system and thus using that 200 you would've spent on a mid range card (which happens to be the best your old system can handle, you couldn't get a bigger one if you wanted due to CPU or RAM bottle necks or no SSD) and spending it on a brand new system as a whole.

    I'm the same way, using an old system that, while DX11 capable, is now 5-6 years old and seriously showing it's age. If I attempt upgrading it, it's really just for not. At that age, the freaking DIMMs have completely moved on now to DDR 4 and the memory clock is DOUBLE what I put in mine so long ago. So even if I upgrade my system, I can't even save money by recycling parts when I'm finally forced to get a new one - and lets face it - any one who's done this hobby as long as I'm sure many of us have? You have to admit, there comes a point where you just need a new system. Starts out with a new MB and go from there. When you're so far behind that features on your MB are now out classed? Upgrading is worthless.

    The other thing is doing the whole "I'll get a budget version" idea, which ends up always being a huge regret. As with all major manufacturers, their price marks on their tiers are cleverly gauged to get you to go for the most inexpensive tier. You may think they're pulling a car salesmen trick over you but... seriously? Get the better tier. Don't underspend on something you enjoy. The difference in price between a GTX 780 and a GTX 760 is so minimal. It's just another 100 bucks and you literally get DOUBLE the card with the 780. Double the cuda cores, double the RAM. On benchmarks, that extra 100 bucks get's you a 68% faster card... so don't cut yourself short.
    Wait and save up and always get the biggest one in the tier. Try to get the most out've your money by translating specs to the dollar. On SSDs, memory per dollar. On GPUs, VRAM/Cores per Dollar. So on so forth. You'll find that the "value tier" (the suckiest entry for that model's reference) is always a horrible value, and the higher tier is always the best value. (sometimes the 2nd tier is the best, will be well priced below the 1st tier but like 5% slower specs. I love those, those are "Hell ya!" items).

    Just like with any other hobbies, as with my car - I don't cut corners. I want no regrets on the thing. This is something that I'm spending on for no other reason than just because I want to. Budgeting for your hobby sucks, If you're having to budget for your hobby? I'd stop that hobby for now. You can come back to it when you've saved up some stuff or paid down some bills or whatever. Trust me, I'm in that state right now. It sucks, but hey... it's life. When you do finally get that new system as your financial situation allows it, you'll feel like a God going from said dinosaur to that seemingly Borg Cube shaped monster you got at your feet. That's a way better feeling than "Well, got this new card, I can finally play the game but now the CPU is holding me back"... such deflating moments.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  27. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    PC gaming is an expensive hobby. Its not for the light of heart, nor the complacent. To be a member of the "PC Master Gaming Race" requires opening a wallet.. as well as a little know how. Well you can omit the latter by opening the wallet a bit further and having someone else build and maintain.. but then we're talking some really absurd amounts. (Just a FYI, not everything I say is applying to the one I quoted, I'm just adding my 2cents)

    One thing I tell people when buying a new computer... and believe me, I'm the one everyone comes to when they want to buy a PC. I've even had a friend tell me he'd pay me $100 just to find him one. Is never ever buy something you cannot afford to replace. Murphy's Law comes into play. Your devices WILL fail at some point.. starting at the end of their warranty. I've seen people save up for a year. Buy a shiny new PC. And then a GPU gives out and they panic. They saved for a year and stopped saving once they bought the PC. You don't stop saving. You keep saving so you can maintain the thing.

    I've also seen people buy the bargain buy. You know.. the PC that will run current stuff at medium settings. Then wonder what's going on next year when they can't play the shiny new game over 20FPS on low. Then its, "what do you mean I have to buy a PC that's double the price of what I paid for?"

    There's always the sob stories that follow when you invariable tell them they have to yet again spend a few hundred to update when it comes (sooner or later.. but it WILL come). They say how they need to spend money on wife and kids, or they're down and out and can't afford it. I feel for them, sometimes.. If they're budgeting and still can't afford it, its a sad thing. Not so much when they have a cellphone bill higher than their car insurance (aka smartphone or iphone). I'm not one to judge.. but if i were in similar straights I'd take care of my priorities first. Playing PC games would be the furthest from my mind. I do wonder where they get the time. My brother can afford probably the $4000 system with 4 GTX 980Ti and the bells and whistles. But he sticks to console and mobile games.. cause well.. priorities. He's got the money, bless him, but not the time. It happens. He gets a thumbs up from me.

    But I tell people first.. play consoles. You can pick them up for about 200 bucks (don't buy them when they just come out). And try to pick up the games for cheap when they go on sale. Huh.. its what my family had to do in the 80s and 90s. Wasn't until I had a job was I able to afford PC gaming. And let me tell you. Buying a CDROM for 200 bucks, 12GB Hard drive for 300, and so forth.. you all have it easy these days when it comes to getting a new PC. I mean my current setup was a Z97-A mobo for $150, i7-4790K for $275, and a GTX 970 for $300. Toss in 16GB of RAM and I got me a future proofed PC for like 5 years. For not too much more than a console would be if you consider the game costs (PC games are cheaper on average).

    But then again.. I built that thing. Notice you all didn't see a Powersupply, Harddrive, Case, ect. Well I already have them. Took old stuff out, put new in. For those who don't know how to do that. They've got to spend 1200-1500 for the same thing prebuilt. I like @Einharjar 's example of the Buick. When you mod a car for racing. It gets stupid expensive when you just hire someone to mod it for you. You can save costs by doing alot of it yourself. But you've got to know what you are doing.. or blow up 3 GTO motors like a buddy of mine had.

    At the end of the day. It is on the user (player) to keep their machines maintained, up to date, and running well. Not the developers of any game. If the game requirements boost beyond what you have. Chances are.. you've got a REALLY old system. I mean you should be considered BLESSED that the game ran on your machine to begin with. I mean before I updated my machine I originally ran SE at about 40FPS before planets. That Computer was CUTTING EDGE as of 2010. It was already 4 years old when I got SE. And it didn't run it at max nor at what most would call optimal framerates. It could do planets, it could do DX11. But not at what I consider.. acceptable.

    Now we have people who can't quite do Directx11. Wow... those are some bargain PCs and old. Not one or the other.. but both. I mean Directx11 has been a thing for some years. And sorry to say, but any machine built in 2013 and beyond is going to handle it somewhat fine. Maybe not optimally, but will do it. But anything before that. There shouldn't be any complaint. I mean you're running on a machine that is about to have a failure. Again Murphy's law comes into play. A machine built before 2013 is over 4 years old at this point. One of those parts is going to fail. And then what will you all do?

    What would you all do indeed?

    Oh well fix the part right? Well when machines are that old.. you have two options. Find a used part (mhmm..) or suck it up and buy a new PC. See when my GTX 970 failed. It was under warranty and I was able to get it replaced. If it was beyond Warranty... I could still run to Best Buy and replace it. But if it was 2020? Nope. That wouldn't be the case. For example, if I was still running my old ATI Radeon 5870 (awesome GPU by the way) and that failed.. replacing that wouldn't be so easy.. well I could probably use a GTX700 or 900 series since the interfaces are the same. But some of you don't have that luxury these days.

    Then.. we have the laptops.

    I could go on all day about this one. But I'm only going to give this advice. Don't do it. If you are buying a PC with the intent of gaming on it. DON'T do the laptops. Yes they're mobile, they're sleek, and you look sexy while watching Netflix on them. But Don't. They're expensive, and non-upgradeable. Not only that but when something breaks.. most times that's a catastrophic failure. The only times you should ever do the laptop thing is if you just CAN'T do the PC (and probably can't do console gaming either), due to space constraints. And you're so filthy rich you can afford both (I was able to do this while active duty, not now though). But then again this discussion doesn't apply if money is no object.

    So yeah.. PC gaming is expensive.. requires the right priorities.. and well takes time some may or maynot have. Those of you affected by the DX11 and/or the 64bit (ho-boy.. if that's the limitation.. you're on something ancient, I'm surprised steam runs on that) issue.. I recommend just budgeting until you can get a new machine. Your SE game will be there waiting for you. Whether it be a few months or few years. It'll be there. And if that isn't an option. Well just write off the $30 you spent. Its not much, I mean when I got Super Mario Bros. 3 back in '92 it was $50. Yeah.. consoles weren't as cheap back when minimum wage was only $4.25... we've got it a bit easier these days.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Yo, laptop-owner here. Laptops are cheaper than a desktop, excellent for those without a lot of space who move around a lot, and can run most things decently okay. They're not on-par with a gaming desktop but they don't need to be to let people play games. Mine was doing fine with Space Engineers until some catastrophic failures that have left it pretty fried, but, hey, I got something like... three and a half years out of it before that happened? Pretty decent IMO.

    Incorrect. High-end PC gaming does. The average person who enjoys videogames but isn't fussed with playing The Latest And Greatest can do fine with a laptop and a steam account.
     
  29. Zarkov Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but it's related to (legacy) graphics cards I guess. How can graphics cards be 7 times more expensive in Brazil than in the US? I'm not doubting the statement, just curious. I live in Sweden. One thing we have an abundance of here, is taxes. Still, we're maybe looking at 50% more expensive when comparing store prices. In short: How the heck does 7x even happen? Apologies if this already has been explained elsewhere.
     
  30. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    I'll presume its maybe physically moving the stock around to consumers where the price hikes come from.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.