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Why do people destroy others creations?

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by iRobLiquorStores, Feb 6, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. GoTo2k Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    I'm kinda surprised that the conversation in this thread only focuses on the seemingly agreed on point that all humans are griefers.

    In my opinion, it is important to note that at this point there aren't many incentives to build something bigger than a 5-minute-ship since
    there is a high chance that the server will go down after a very short time.

    I am convinced that we will see better builds once stable dedicated servers (which feature larger worlds) are implemented. So that the
    players actually have a chance to build a persisting world which they plan to visit frequently.

    Right now, everything is happening in the very small starting area and there is no way to share beacons only with selected people.

    Just imagine a 50x50x50 world (current level size) where you can find astroids everywhere and have the ability to share beacons only with
    your faction/friends. It would be very hard for anyone to find your base, if you built it a little bit further away and don't have a public beacon.

    This being said, I'm convinced that it will get better in the future.


    EDIT: BTW, is the Easystart 3 world now working in multiplayer? I have a map in singleplayer where I found an astroid 10 km from the starting zone :)
     
  2. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    1,977
    Oh my now, that is just such a withering indictment of the state of our things here in the US now, oh my. I am going to go fan myself and lie down over that one.
     
  3. Stonewolf Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    776
    The problem is, not evolving out of that state. I blame the education systems. Until everyone everywhere has a change to get a same education as others do, for free, you will see this happen over and over in games, streets & everywhere. Biggest problem in this beautiful planet we call home is "NIMBY".

    But I'm not gonna go any deeper on that issue, this is not the place.

    Blaming the victim?! :D That's a load of bull droppings. If you're ever in trouble for shooting someone, try this for defense 'Your Honor I was just shooting at nothing and he was standing in the way of my bullet, so its his fault.' and see how it goes. Now I do see what you meant with your posts, but thats a wrong way of putting it.

    Now if you did not set your server private and screen people coming in, your not a victim, your an instigator. Don't go swimming when its shark feeding time and cry for shark bite :cool:

    If you want private server with a flow of new people, create a website where you solve complex problems to get the password. Most griefers wont bother with time spend solving the problem and you will get less griefers. Still there are people who will just google the answers to get the password but it will be less. Changing the server password and sending it to friends will guarantee a larger scale of players that are capable of getting along. When a random griefer joins, everyone just gang on him. Bully is most scared of being bullied. They will find another server for 'fun'.

    If you are being griefed, know this much, you found somewhat of a lesser mind.

    Personally, blowing something that I made = fun. Something someone else made (or is building), not so much. I do agree, explosions are fun :crazy:

    Anyway, that's just my 2 cents on the subject of griefers.
     
  4. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Dont write about law, when you obliviosly dont know anythink.

    First case shoting for no reason+ 5 years for danger random people in areal + 3 years if they dont find bullets + kill some from neglingance = worst then kill some one on purpose +7 years best case normaly its 14-17 from previous cases and main courd verdicts.

    You did shoot him but he didnt die ? To bad you will play until day he die cca 30% of slary + if you have money it can be few milions ( and then meybe his family ) like compenzation and get 7 years in jail ( in beter case ).

    Shoot him death is only corect way ( ofc you didnt want to... ) so you can get still 2 years and take away your shoting licence + you must find all your bullets or it can be +3-5 becose you did again danger all people in areal. ( kanada, slovakia and czech are only countryes where you must make tests to get weapon licence so... victim is at same or worst position then atacker in slovakia and czech )

    So yea its victims faul that she get atacked :rof: and meybe you let them atack you on purpose ( be careful law have nothink to do with logic )
     
  5. piddlefoot Senior Engineer

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    1,182
    Those that are bored grief.
    It happens in my server all the time just have to deal with it, were all humans and we all like Space Engineers, so we all have at least one thing in common, griefing is to be expected, especially in an Alpha game.
    Doesn't bother me, if your building a special project online you probably a little bit loopy like me ! It can be done just ctrl+c every 5 minutes to prevent griefers...
     
  6. ShaggyAMT Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    There are no common goals for players in MP at this point. Testing the effectiveness of my fighters and bombers is the only reason I get on MP right now. Combine that with awful lag and de-syncing all the time, and all I feel like doing is shooting at whatever I see while I'm stuck in slo-mo.
     
  7. piddlefoot Senior Engineer

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    1,182
    A lot of the de-syncing issues appear to be ping related, high pingers look very choppy in there movement, messes the server up bad.

    Feel free to lob into my server whenever you see it up and blow the crap outa anything you find !

    hehe I sometimes load up some of the ships with warheads for extra explosions, looks great, is a cool surprise, so careful if you are walking around in them !
     
  8. OrangeAaron Apprentice Engineer

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    382
    I think a good option would be player rep system like they have on xbox and things. That way you could mod your servers to only accept people with rep above 60% or something.
     
  9. ShaggyAMT Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    A Rep system on the internet is not workable. That would just add a tool to the griefer's arsenal. It's too easy to abuse without making it a complicated process.
     
  10. OrangeAaron Apprentice Engineer

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    382
    Yeah, but i don't see any uncomplicated options except whitelist and blacklist, which both have large drawbacks. whitelist will limit players for people who like big servers, blacklists only work after the fact. rep would be after the fact for some servers, but at least it would save the rest.
     
  11. Dementalist Trainee Engineer

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    7
    Hello, i'm new on Space engineer, and i want to ask sorry IF i have destroyed some other creation :( (not sure if..).
    Yesterday i have bought this wonderful game and tried some multiplayer maps.
     
  12. toxi Apprentice Engineer

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    390
    thats wrong, if the police force and the justice is intact. it is right if that is not the case. (both things are running smoother in .at then in .cz .. thats sadly right .. but i am confident that this is just a question of time)

    in SE, there is no police or justice, just selfjustice ... you have all the weapons and all the possibilities, but no peace. take the weopons away, the possibility to grief and you have peace.
    thats the point ... more weopons will never lead to more peace.

    wasnt my intention to hurt someone .. i take it as a matter of fact that it is the way it is. i know a lot of americans who went, because thats not there way (anymore) .. because there are some different definitions about "freedome"

    thats the great thing about different cultures ... we are able to pick what fit's ... so saturaxCZ may leave for a nation where he can hold a gun 24/7 .. so that he feels secure ... and on the other hand .. i am not next to some nutheads who think thats a need ... (because after all: those guyes end up at "attack is the best defense")

    however ... the problem in SE will be solved after whitelisting ...
     
  13. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Well i cary weapon 24/7, but never had to us it ( but if i will be forced us it for self-defence i will probably stay few years in jail, becose some ***** did try atack me or steal in my house ) that was my point and what i want change. ( more laws for protection of normal people, and call police when some one is already in house will not help you :thumb: + reaction time of police is 20 min before they reach you :rof: and its not a joke ) There is lot of countrys where you can cary weapon openly on public and no one realy care, becose every one have gun its natural ( no one have intention harm some one, it same like cary iPhone in evrope ) i didnt fell in danger at all... + if some one want us it agains some one he will think about it, before he get shoot from 20 people around him. :p

    Just another example of same situation:

    US/EU logic: rober in bank take hostages, kill few of them before police go in, or shoot him throw windows

    same situation in Izrael, rober call: All on ground with weapon in hand and get shoot from 5 directions when 4/5 was normal people with family in bank... ( no victims except rober )

    Soo... what is beter get killed, becose you dont cary weapon, or take active part in defending yourself and your family ? + I agree with your coment, its just too soon let state defend people and have perfect laws + i prefer weapons for sport shooting and competitions anyway :D
     
  14. Maul555 Apprentice Engineer

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    239
    If you remove gang members killing gang members from the US statistics, then we are among the safest nations in the world, and crime has been declining for years while at the same time increasing the rights and numbers of gun owners... Just stay away from the bad part of town. I am glad to live in a place that allows me the right to self defense, and I don't want anyone to change that...

    [​IMG]
     
  15. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Yea its kinda hard to compare it when all CZ have 11 500 000 people and USA have 12 000 000 just emigrants :rof: and 650 000 from total number are incurable criminals... so when you remove 1% of people witch will be all times agains state, it can be more safe then CZ ( meybe take every state in us separately to find out ? )

    Edited: That is a graph i mean Maul555 :thumb:
     
  16. toxi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    390
    well and thats the problem with actual statistics: you cant pick what you like.

    the fact that you have gangs (and we not) proves my point: that the US has a lot of problems because of a too weak state that cant even bring there own citys under controll. and i dont speak about brute force.

    if you remove gangviolent from other 3rd world nations, you end up also pretty safe .. because THOSE elements are the reason for a lot of problems (the normal ppl dont kill each other). you have to deal with your problems, not ignore them ... if you ignore them it might be to late somewhen. just send your marines to pacify some of your own citys ;) .. then take some momey to educate ppl to be peacfull human beeings.
     
  17. Maul555 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    The US hardly has anything closely resembling a weak state that cant bring their own cities under control... I think you are thinking of some other country. Just because the state does not have a monopoly on the legitimate use of force/violence doesn't mean they are weak. Have you seen our prison populations and the the militarization of police forces lately? The "state" has more toys than they can use... Anyways, I am sure we both could go on back and forth with this topic, but I think this might be tuning into a threadjack ^^
     
  18. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Im sure that i will not regret cary gun and never us it, but when you will need gun and dont have it toxi... a hope you have at least some basic martial art trening to defend your self, so you will not regret it. + there is a lot of martial arts where you dont need physical strenght or other defence toys then weapons ( it dont mean they are not deadly :rof: ) + im curious how will you teach african who emigrate in evrope and know nothink else then war about behaving like human beeings. :rof: can you imagine that they at some countryes teach kids from 5years is corect kill other, how will you miraculously teach him ? ( they solve this problem 2 ways 99% time 1.pretend they dont know there are people in conteiner and let them die, 2. or if they open it pay them to leave to next country in europe + transport ( becose they can not send them back if they dont tell from witch country they are from ))
     
  19. toxi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    390
    you won't find ghettos so fast in the (old)EU than in the US. not because we spy anything or let police kill ppl ... but because we spend our money differently ... not in more security, more weopons. the romans called it Panem et circenses, 'bread and games' ... we give poor ppl enough so that they dont have to become criminals ... it just didnt pay to become criminal for most of the ppl. if you become sick, you went to the doc without thinking about the costs, because you dont pay that. thats a lot less stressfull.

    in the end: the costs are the same ... because you dont have to militarisise the police ... thats a lot of money you safe.

    the whole thing with the US is that you didnt listen to dwight d. eisenhower ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cADuaLl3sfc ) that lead to a situation where there is no turning back ... sadly.

    again: i am not agains america or something ... its just a good excample where a specific way ends (less have anything, the rest nothing.) ... and i am glad that the rest of the world will not follow this way ... but that there is a varity of ways.

    which one is better .. is one thing everybody has to decide for itself.
     
  20. Carrion Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,409
    Saturaxcz. your posts recently have been bang out of line and out right racist in there nature. its beyond discussing various, highly off topic, pros and cons of various policing systems .

    im not easy to offend in a race way but you are frankly a nasty small minded little bigot with no understanding of basic humanity at all. here is a hint. All people regardless of race color or creed are members of the human race. you can be christing or jew, muslim or aethist and i will respect your right to your faith as long as you respect mine, you can be black, white, asian, mixed. hell paint yourself green and say your a martian for all i care. they are all still humans and dismissing entire continents worth of people over such things is just plain wrong.
     
  21. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Insulting me and from RACISM ? for real ?, but difference from you is: I was in all this places minimal 3 mounths in every country i speak about and seen all i write about and im just teling you what is happening now with this people not that i agree with it... if you are saint go and help them. I dont care about them im not on their side didnt try to help, but im not against them. Just telling you about this... and i didnt suggest they are more dangerous then people which are already here ( why did i us word africans is becose they are africans who try run from africa and i never said black, yelow, green atc... its somethink you come up with ) if some one is racist it must be ( with your logic ) country witch deport them, or dont take them like their own people.... ( seriosly ? You agree with every one who come here = automaticaly citizen ? )

    ( meybe it sound like it becose my writen english is not good, but i realy didnt find coments agains any group of people except criminals... can you copy and post this RACISTIC coments ? so i can delete them all ? or write me private massage )

    +Yea its all off topic for some time, but when you are all so benevolent and full of understanding and dont care about other people groups, ignore groups witch cary weapons too :D just ignore us, nothink will make us more happy then hear no coment from people who never touched weapons tell us how dengerous weapons are or why we dont have right cary weapons... just respect it like other religions :rof: ( + orginal map of deaths on 100000 people was posted be toxi )

    Toxi, where are you from? Becose i realy have no idea, where is this safe zone on this planet you are speaking about. :D
     
  22. Azi Dahaka Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    220
    Saturax, by your logic (which has some correct aspects), killing everyone you come across is the only possible solution. If someone attacks you, it must be your fault if you are not armed, yes? And if they catch you by surprise, it's your fault as well? So, if anyone could attack you and it would be your fault for not defending yourself, you need to kill everyone. Just to make sure.
     
  23. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Basicaly thats Czech republic law about weapon holding ( thats why i was making fun from it ) :rof: When 3-XXX people go agains you and atack you ( you are the victim ) but when you defend your self and hurt some one ( hurt not kill ), they can testify that you was atacker :D and you have to pay them for injuries until day they die, thats why is beter let no one testifi agains you ( + in this case you can end 5-7years in jail ) and you can still lose weapon licence and get 2years for self-defence ( when you kill )
    + they must have some kind of weapon knife, gun, chain, iron bar, atc...

    Never take out weapon until you want to shoot is my short version and personal opinion.

    There is all time second possibility: Dont defend your self and hope they will only robe you :p its your choice and i dont suggest people to defend them self at all situations, specialy when they dont have weapon, defence toy, training, atc... it can cost you your life and its your choise what will you do and how YOU see situation. Best way how evade atack is evade places where you can get atacked. You will not take short cut throught dangerous streets without light at night, alone, near walls, cary rings, gold chains, atc... there is XXX thinks people do and dont care about safety.
    ( listen to music while walking alone, or playing with phone are 2 moust comon and dont observe suroundings while doing it )
    + i never had to us gun becose i have rather good martial art skill ;)
     
  24. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

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    848
    the problem that so many people make in politics these days is thinking that laws are going to fix anything. when have the masses ever done something simply because the government told them to without some force to back that order up?

    i own a gun, i have been to gun ranges, fired stuff as big as a 50 cal sniper rifle and i love blowing stuff up and so do my closest friends. space engineers and video games make wonderful environments to do just that. i am deep into the lore of w40k = a universe that creates the very definition of grim-darkness and pure testosterone (in my opinion anyway lol).

    yet, i have never pointed my gun at anyone, never even killed a single living thing with it. i might set things on fire, but never have i burned something someone cared about. and never have i played space engineers and destroyed the work of another person. although in 40k there are chainswords and bloody games like Space Marine, i am still deeply disturbed by blood gushing out in real life

    i'm not trying to brag, but it is to make the point that guns and laws do not change people - it is culture and the values that a culture upholds, and then the values people want to uphold on their personal levels

    for example, here in the US i can turn on the news to hear about murder after murder after murder. i don't watch the news because i am sick of it. our media glorifies killers in a way by giving their biographies and never letting anyone forget about them (while the victims are heroes are forgotten). murder becomes normal and it loses its shock.

    i do not feel safe going into the city in the US. but when i was in Berlin for several months, i did feel safe, even at night. you could argue that it is because Germany does not allow guns. but is that really why? i noticed the people and the way they abhor violence in general. the culture is marked by their past and they have learned from their mistakes very well (for which i hold them in very high regards). the environment is social - you see normal people, families, children, etc. walking the streets (even in the smaller cities, something i see so rarely here), with children straying far from their parents yet feeling safe regardless. i did not feel safe in Berlin because the government does not allow guns - there are always ways to get guns. i felt safe because of the culture of that city.

    to get more relevant to SE - why do some people (like myself) only play with friends? because among friends there is a "culture" of non-trolling. we never made some law among each other - we simply share a code of honor and hold each other to that on a personal level

    TL;DR - culture changes people, not laws and politics. can we stop debating now?
     
  25. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Part about holding weapon in germany is not corect: local police check your back ground and ask neighbours and you can get weapon licence in 14 days for self defence short gun ( with maximal limit 2 short guns and you must cary it hiden ) when you are colector limit is one brand of weapon and must have them locked on shooting range and when you have huntink weapons, you can have them at home with limited ammo capacity 1-3. ( you can evade this limitations with shooters clubs and historical clubs, they have exception ) but they will not alove you bayonets, limit on knife is 4,5 cm and you can not us military knifes at all.

    ( of corse its for germans if you are turist you will not get weapon for self defence ( only sport weapons with permisshion +invitation on shooting range/competition ))

    +1 for stop debating and blame it on culture in state :thumb:
     
  26. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

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    848
    ah ok. i spoke to generally as i knew guns were allowed for hunting, i did not realize you could get one for self-defense though. it was not something that was brought up much and they usually seemed to think Americans were crazy for having lots of guns lol
     
  27. toxi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    390
    the difference between the weopon laws is not that big ... its not hard to get a gun in the EU ... but if you shoot someone, even on your own ground: its killing. we have different ideas about self-defense (and here the laws are VERY differnt) ... thats because we have a longer and stronger tradition regarding police and law.

    ergo: the need to have a gun .. or just: "the sense" is lower in the EU (because you cant use it for self defence, defacto) .. still .. we have a lot of guns over here, because we also have a tradition about hunting.

    the US is pretty young .. i mean ... my town has a tradition of about 2500 years ... while the US is proud on things that 200 years old. the time that we had no police is pretty much longer in the past then in america ... think about 3 generations back ... there was no law and there was no state (while in europe, there was .. and it was very strong, even supressingly strong, to be true). its understandable that the US state is weak, with a view to europe and it is understandable that even this weak state is too strong for the descendants of those who run away from this strict bounds of police and law ... past in europe.

    again ... i dont give a score to that. from my point of view, i would recommend saty to migrate to the US (or south africa), because the law there is much more what he desires. for me: thats the reason why i did not go when i got the chance some years ago, even with the knowledge that i would earn much more.
     
  28. Tallenvor Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    15
    Everyone equipping an assault rifle in SE should fill in a background check :p

    All jokes aside. I for one am happy living in Europe and tbf speaking for The Netherlands. The chances of getting shot in a bad part of town (even the big cities) is remote.
    Interestingly in Europe the UK has the lowest shootings. Could it be because they are the only country I know of that does not let all police carry guns?

    That said a strong government has down sides as well. But in the case of violence, i think we should leave that in their hands. Specially assault/automatic riffles.
     
  29. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Still after all bad thinks i did say about czech law it have 2 strong points why i stay here:

    I can have all weapons up to caliber 12,7 with exception up to 14,5mm ( russian anti-tank rifle ) + in clubs automatical rifles,mgs.
    I have no limits how many weapons can i own and colect.

    Until some one touch this two points you can find my in Czech moust of time :p and 30-80% of my weapons are forbiden in moust U.S. countrys, soo south africa is last solution.
     
  30. ShaggyAMT Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    Very few US citizens own fully automatic weapons. The AR-15s, AK-47s and other "assault rifles" that most citizens in the US own are limited to semi-automatic operation and cannot be changed to full auto by replacing the trigger group only. Some citizens own fully automatic weapons but must pay a tax and go through a clearance process through the BATFE. The full auto weapons that can be legally owned must have been manufactured and imported to the US before 1986 and they are expensive, an H&K MP-5 could sell for around US$30,000 or more. That's enough money for a new, nice mid-sized car or a basic full sized pickup truck.
     
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