Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

New! Changes to CTG - Rules and Guidelines

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Blitzzz333, Sep 10, 2018.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Blitzzz333 Keen PR Guy Staff

    Messages:
    126
    Keen Software House Closed Testing Group (CTG)

    Becoming a CTG Member

    CTG members are pillars of the Keen Software House gaming community. They are members of our community that have proven themselves to be both avid fans and valuable contributors! We evaluate members of the Keen Software House gaming community based on some of the following criteria:
    - At least 400+ hours of game time.
    - Experience with modding, server hosting, community hosting, or content creation related to these titles.
    - Experience with game testing, quality assurance, programming, development.
    - And of course the most important qualification, a love for “Space Engineers” and/or “Medieval Engineers”, and the desire to help shape these into the best games possible.
    - A desire to be an active member of the CTG, as members who are inactive for three months will be removed from the CTG, unless they provide a valid excuse in advance for their inactivity.

    Anyone who wants to join the CTG must send an email to info@keenswh.com and this message must include:
    - A short description of themselves.
    - Why they believe they’re a suitable candidate for CTG membership.
    - List the number of hours played in “Space Engineers” or “Medieval Engineers”.
    - Provide a link to their “Space Engineers” or “Medieval Engineers” account. For example, a Steam ID.

    Keen Software House will review all applications to the CTG and contact suitable candidates at its discretion.
    If a candidate is offered a membership to the CTG, they must sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement (“NDA”) with Keen Software House.


    What’s to be Expected?

    The CTG is a productive workspace where testing can take place, bug feedback can be generated, and members can speak with not just each other, but members of the development team that may need your help getting items within the game addressed.

    The three core items that CTG membership contributes (in its capacity as testers) to the development of “Space Engineers” or ”Medieval Engineers” are:

    1) Bug reports: This includes crash logs and STR or “Steps To Reproduce”. If a bug report outlines an issue within the game, a good STR is the answer to that problem. If you are passionate about solving issues you see within a given title (“Space Engineers” or “Medieval Engineers”), then figuring out how to reproduce bugs will allow you to contribute heavily to development of Keen Software House titles. The best thing you can do to help accelerate the resolution of bugs is supply a reproducible test case (Repro Case), if you can. Typically this will include the world in the smallest form to reproduce the issue. If there is a mod issue, including the smallest part of the mod required. Having a world ready to go makes it easier for Keen Software House to see the issue, and the easier it is for Keen Software House, the more likely they are to look into the issue quickly.

    2) Observations: Some items may not qualify as a bug, but simply as an observation. Other, less obvious items would include model “clipping”, strange or “glitchy” behavior of game elements, or even misspellings and localization errors.

    3) Suggestions: Everyone has a wishlist for “Space Engineers” or “Medieval Engineers” features! That's what makes titles like this so special and so popular. When offering suggestions, please keep a focus on CURRENT game features or elements and how they could be improved. Items suggested by the community have often made it into the game, including PLANETS!

    CTG members have been invited as participants in testing and contributing to the future of Keen Software House gaming products. As such, you will have special insights into the current state of development, and what the future of development may look like! CTG members are encouraged to make extensive use of both the CTG Discord chat, ctg.keenswh.com (for “Space Engineers") and https://forums.keenswh.com (for “Medieval Engineers”).


    Communication with Developers

    Developers are first, and most importantly, at work. This should be kept in mind at all times when speaking to any member of the Keen Software House team or using these resources (Discord chat and messages via ctg.keenswh.com and https://forums.keenswh.com). Members of the Keen Software House team may, or may not, have time budgeted to answer your questions or discuss a topic at length. Using the proper channels (CTG Moderator), rather than expecting an immediate answer, is a much better way to communicate with the team in general. Again using ctg.keenswh.com (for “Space Engineers”), https://forums.keenswh.com (for “Medieval Engineers”) and Discord are the most effective way of interacting with developers, as they are constantly monitoring these channels of communication.

    Don't expect an answer, or, the answer you want. While a huge part of the development process is open to CTG members there is still a great deal more that CTG members simply won’t have access to. The development team chooses what information, builds and features they would like the CTG to work with.

    Some items the CTG may test could be retired from the game’s current build before ever being revealed to the public, immediately after testing starts, or even after a public release; this is perfectly normal. “Space Engineers” and “Medieval Engineers” use a public development cycle, and we are all still learning about how this plays out. Most games go through hundreds of iterations with countless implementations of often “retired” features before ever releasing to the public. As a CTG member, you'll have the privilege of seeing this process play out firsthand.


    Code of Conduct

    Violation of this Code of Conduct is grounds for dismissal from the CTG, or/in addition, to being banned from the Keen Software House Discord server. As a CTG member you are held to a high standard. As an experienced member of the “Space Engineers” or “Medieval Engineers” community, your contributions are seen as a “cut above the rest” (that's why you're here!) and you will be expected to conduct yourself as such. The spaces set aside for CTG membership are not just chat rooms. These areas should be considered a working environment. All CTG members will he held accountable for their words and actions, without exception.

    1) All CTG members acknowledge the official Moderator of the CTG and that they have been appointed to this role by Keen Software House. If a member has any concerns, issues, or questions, they should contact him via the Keen Software House Discord channel, ctg.keenswh.com (for “Space Engineers”) and https://forums.keenswh.com (for “Medieval Engineers”). The CTG Moderator will communicate CTG members’ concerns, issues or questions to Keen Software House; this includes possible dismissal from the CTG of members who do not adhere to the Code of Conduct.

    2) Do not use, post, distribute or link to obscene, pornographic, sexually explicit, graphically or gratuitously violent, derogatory, demeaning, malicious, defamatory, abusive, offensive, hateful or discriminatory language or content. This includes “masking” language by using alternative characters/spelling /spacing to get around profanity filters or claims of profanity filter “testing”.

    3) Do not harass, bully, threaten, or cause harm to other persons, including any other members of either the CTG or Keen Software House Staff. For example:
    -Use of hate speech or racial, ethnic, sexist, homophobic or religious slurs.
    -Harassment of a specific person (repeated flaming, personal attacks or posting their private information).
    -Trolling or baiting the community in general with inflammatory statements, such as ones designed to elicit a negative response from the community. Please note: Keen Software House appreciates criticism, but it must be constructive and presented in a professional manner.
    -Posting or otherwise disclosing any personal or private information of another person, or any confidential information pertaining to a business, without consent.

    4) Do not disrupt communication channels. For example:
    -Spamming through repeated posts, or intentional off-topic content (use the proper channels).

    5) All CTG members acknowledge that Keen Software House has the right to change these rules at any time. Keen Software House will notify the CTG of any changes to the rules outlined in this document.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2018
    • Disagree Disagree x 10
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Gwindalmir Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    999
    I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this 100%.

    The "moderator" put in charge was inactive in CTG for at least 2 years, and only now do you enact an inactivity rule.
    I say this rule should be retroactive, and that moderator kicked out. He does not represent us, and refuses to talk about how he is qualified to be in that position. This was all done without involvement of current and (now) former CTG members.

    I and several others have already left CTG discord due to this (others have quit entirely).

    (EDIT: I'm not actually in favor of kicking anyone, but if Keen is going to enact that rule...)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 11
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. Jimmacle Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    51
    I agree with Gwindalmir, though I should specify that most of the turmoil is in SE CTG, while ME CTG is an enjoyable environment. Keen is attempting to address issues within CTG without consulting CTG members themselves, which only amplifies the current problems we have. This has been the last straw for several members because Keen doesn't listen to our suggestions on how to improve CTG's efficiency.

    As for anyone considering applying to join, I can only warn you that there are still problems and most current members are quite frustrated with the state of things.

    EDIT: The new moderator has begun banning people who disagree with his appointment despite a near-unanimous request to get a moderator that works to the benefit of CTG.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    677
    Due to these events, I've considered carefully:

    After the many other longstanding, compounding issues culminating in this ill-considered decision...along with the overly-broad social justice-like "harmful" speech rules which are highly subjective...I've decided to abandon SE and modding SE altogether and move to ME instead. Where there is clear leadership and communication.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. Blitzzz333 Keen PR Guy Staff

    Messages:
    126
    Hi Everyone.

    The recent changes to the CTG are designed to make it a more productive and safe work environment for existing, as well as new members to the group.

    Keen Software House is working closely with our official moderator and members of the CTG to not only gather as much information regarding Space Engineers and Medieval Engineers features, testing, etc., but also feedback on the new guidelines for the CTG.

    Please also feel free to email info@keenswh.com if you have any questions, concerns or feedback for us.

    Cheers! : ):)
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  6. rexxar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,530
    Hi Blitz,
    Keen appears to not at all understand the problems CTG are facing. These rules enforced with no discussion, and unqualified moderator plucked seemingly from thin air are causing civil unrest, and it's taken many past the breaking point. Two of your "pillars of the community" have declared they're leaving, publicly, with several more doing the same in private. But we're still going ahead with the plans, no discussion or compromise allowed.

    Until such a time as the problems in CTG are resolved sufficiently, I and other members will be warning potential CTG applicants to stay well away from the absolute dumpster fire that CTG has become.

    Cheers,
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  7. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    I'd like to add my voice to the consensus. The steps being taken do not address the root cause with CTG, lack of communication. Adding another proxy between devs and testers is the last thing that is needed.

    Additionally, the choice of moderator is someone who hasn't been active in ages. I've never seen the guy until recently, and the fact that he is placed in a moderation position over the consistently active contributors to CTG is worrying.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  8. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    Might as well throw my name in the ring on this one, For comparison:

    CTG ME: Problem > ME team Lead > Feedback > Solution
    CTG SE: Problem > Moderator > PR guy > SE team Lead(?) > Feedback to moderator > maybe solution

    This adds needless extra layers for us to have to go through, to people that the majority of folks in CTG don't actually know well enough to even know they were in the group, much less trust to be a moderator for the group.

    TLDR: Keen tried to use a textbook definition of the problem, to try and fix the problem... And many of us aren't happy
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  9. Geneticus Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,617
    Well, as is often the case when we see new things, the design is doing the opposite of what it purports to do. Therefore I have some questions:
    1. Why does there need to be a separate set of conduct rules from what is already in the forum rules as well as the Discord #rules channel?
    2. What problem needs to be solved that application of those rules can't solve?
    3. Isn't the fact that the acronym COC, when pronounced, is in violation of the obsessive thesaurus lookup? "(2) Do not use, post, distribute or link to obscene, pornographic, sexually explicit, graphically or gratuitously violent, derogatory, demeaning, malicious, defamatory, abusive, offensive, hateful or discriminatory language or content."
    4. Since when Is there a "Profanity Filter"anywhere in the tools we use?
    5. As a Matter of Fact, since none of those issues has ever really been a problem in the group, wouldn't clearly plagiarizing that line from Magic The Gathering's copyright website (seriously, I pasted that whole line into google it is right there on the top result.) be something you should be more concerned with?
    6. I mean really, doesn't someone who may have stolen copywritten material in violation of international laws, seem like someone you shouldn't share confidential information with or put into a position of relative power?
    7. How is the current communication "unsafe" ? How many deaths can you attribute to discord chat? Are developers literally tripping over flipped tables in chat ((╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻)?
    8. This isn't a work environment for us unless you plan to start paying the volunteers... If So, I'd like retroactive pay for the last four years please....
    9. How do you plan to police language coming from a multi-national, multi-linguistic, and multi-ethnic group, where idioms, phrases, and slang from any one group or culture are automatically going to be offensive to someone else who ascribes a different meaning for those words?
    10. How is any of this going to prevent developers treating our concerns dismissively or combatively when we say that a decision made for whatever internal reasons exist, is a bad thing to deliver to the community?
    11. How Is any of this going to get us more than a day or two of playtime on a new patch with more bugs than we can begin to document before release? (Yes, every once in a while we get a week, maybe two. It is not the norm.)
    12. How is this going to allow us to playtest "secret" features instead of releasing them directly, broken in ways it is too late to fix after they have been made public?
    13. How is this supposed to get us a clearer understanding of what is changed in a build?
    14. Is there some mystery mechanism we are missing that will actually give us a list of things that changed rather than things KSH thinks have changed? like the repo commit logs?
    15. Did anyone see where I dropped my mic? It was here a second ago.....
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    924
    hmm, a little more time spent googling some terms in the CoC, specifically this one "Use of hate speech or racial, ethnic, sexist, homophobic or religious slurs." (including the double quote marks), shows many different companies all using the same base CoC with their own edits relevant to what they do, looks pretty normal to me!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Jimmacle Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    51
    Extracting a common phrase and attempting to claim that that disproves the copying of several full bullet points word-for-word is silly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    924
    isnt that what geneticus did? it seems its a good method for finding duplicates!
    the point is it has found many companies using the same base CoC, not just Magic: The Gathering's website.
     
  13. Geneticus Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,617
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.